Curse

bilateralrope · Oct 25, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Back to topic, those that actually give you effect, don't you think its kinda in the same league as run me to Drognar to get max armor kind of "cheating"? the reasons for the reputations is so that you work to get the armor for your character, if you are not even interested in playing that part of the game, why do you want armor from that part of the game?

I'm not asking to skip specific content here. I'm asking to avoid having to repeat content multiple times on each character.

So what is so good gamplay-wise about stat boosts gained from repeating a piece of identical content over and over ?

madness2k4 · Oct 25, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

I'm asking to avoid having to repeat content multiple times on each character.

I agree, grinding on same content across 10 chars is like soooo boring and too much time sinking.
/signed

legion_rat · Oct 25, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Poor guy, how about reading topic's name
" Make all grind-based titles account based."
Is Kind of a Big Deal grind-based title?
I'll leave you with this question and a lil' hint.
Think sometimes, ok?

No but i understand what hes saying.

You grind out SS, LB, then the other already acount based like friend to the " ", and a lvl one can come out with Kobt.

I dont mind the OP idea but I can see where it screws other titles. I do agree with the poster who said make it on the useless non-story based titles like sweet tooth and drunkard.

~the rat~

freekedoutfish · Oct 25, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Yes, I got that the first time. But why is it a bad thing that people get an easier time on their second character ?

Be sure to produce a reason that takes into account improvements in player skill, knowledge of the maps they got the first time through, and having more skills for their heroes....

I refuse to continue because your just not listening and your being stubborn and lazey!

It is a blatent unfair advantage for your second player to start playing GWEN straight away with an instant +10 damage against destroyers, while new players have to work for it.

The same goes for NF and extra damage against abaddons minions.

As for the comments about wisdom and treasure hunting adding an advantage to more % change of your keys surviving. That doesnt make the actual gameplay easier, it just means you can open more chests.

What your asking for is the equilivant of saying "right Ive completed all the missions in prophercies on HM on one character, so I want them all unlocked and completed on ALL my characters on HM because I dont want to grind for them again."

Yet you could argue "but I dont like re-playing all these missions on every character and I think its grind, so if one has completed them I want them completed on them all".

I can then argue "but how does it make sense for level 14 character to enter prophercies and have all the missions completed on NM and/or HM, when they havent even done one quest yet?".

And your arguement could be "But how does it effect you?"!

Do you see my point?

You can use the "but how does it effect you" arguement until your blue in the face. You could use that arguement for anything and everything inlife. I've heard people use that arguement to try and say the smoking ban in the UK isnt needed because apparently smoking in my face doesnt effect me!!

But when an idea is just complete nonsense, then its complete nonsense (god knows ive made enough stupid suggestions in my time).

We just dont need to have GWEN or NF titles account based. It will give an unfair advantage to new characters if they enter those campaigns or expansions with an automatic +damage or +protection or stronger pve only skills straight out. Thats a fact and accept it.

Its pve not pvp! You cant have things be unlocked accross an entire account just because one character has completed it in pve. The point is to have all things unlocked individually in pve. But the other major point is these GWEN and NF titles are not that important that we need them to be account based.

There is also the major point that it will automatically give new players 4-6 maxed titles. That means a player could create a completely new char and have it instantly be KOABD!

Now explain to me how and why exactly a new level1 character deserves to be KOABD?

You might create a Necromancer and have absolutely no skill or knowledge about how to use it. You might be a completely rubbish Necro by the time your level20, yet you have KOABD! Isnt that miss-leading? Players will see that and instantly assume you must have some skills if you have it!

Yet you only have it because a DIFFERENT character earned those 6 titles. Not your necro!!

But it just makes NO sense for a low level character to be running around with KOABD! It completely removes the point of that title! It completely devlaues that title! Why have a set of titles like KOABD and PKM and VIP which are intended to show a players individual accomplishments, if you can instantly give your new char KOABD?

But you wont accept what im saying and I give up, it wont happen anyway.

arcanemacabre · Oct 25, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I refuse to continue because your just not listening and your being stubborn and lazey!

It is a blatent unfair advantage for your second player to start playing GWEN straight away with an instant +10 damage against destroyers, while new players have to work for it.

And I could use that same argument for max weapons. After all, all characters do share the same storage. Do you think it's fair that a new character can just pick up a couple of greens from storage and start out with max weapons, while others have to work for it? Hell, they can lay down $5 for GotY weapons! Is that fair in the least!?

Honestly.

freekedoutfish · Oct 25, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

And I could use that same argument for max weapons. After all, all characters do share the same storage. Do you think it's fair that a new character can just pick up a couple of greens from storage and start out with max weapons, while others have to work for it? Hell, they can lay down $5 for GotY weapons! Is that fair in the least!?

Honestly.

"Honestly" if I must....

A weapon, focus item or consumable is an item which can be traded and it makes perfect sense to transfer them between characters (either your own or a different person) at high or low levels. Its called commerce! There are lots of ways to get these from the start...

1) Storage.
2) Trading.
3) A free gift from a nice player (ive done it before).

These dont do anything but give a player a max weapon and perfect mods. Something which in factions you can get from a merchant or collector within a very short time and you can travel to cantha from factions or NF to also get them sooner. You are also able to get max armor in faction very early on and also if you travel there.

That all makes sense because its commerce and trade. No one is under any advantage because we all have access to these weapons via trade. It all just depends how much they cost to buy.

The OP isnt talking about trading or passing titles as an item you purchase or your given. He/she is on about allowing a character who hasnt earned a max title to unlock it and feel the benefits. Im not suggesting we be able to trade titles, because thats nonsense!

How ever a title is attained personally and by the individual to display their accomplishments, progress and ability as an individual character. The OP suggestion would instantly give any new player 4-6 max titles (or more possibly) if they were account based. The end result is a lvl1 char with KOABD or higher!

The KOABD title(s) are intended to show high levels of accomplishment and effort by an individual character. What exactly has a lvl1 character done to deserve KOABD?

Then once that player reaches lvl20, people start assuming they achieved KOABD themselvs on that char. They jump to the conclusion their good at that profession or atleast skilled in some respect! Isnt that misleading?

Bottom line is that an item which can traded is perfectly acceptable to sell or give to a low level players. A maxed title should not be given to low level players or other characters on your account, because their individually achieved and their intended as evidence of your effort and progress.

tyche7 · Oct 25, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

/signed a million times over. I'm SO tired of grind with as many toons as I have.

cellardweller · Oct 25, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I refuse to continue because your just not listening and your being stubborn and lazey!

It is a blatent unfair advantage for your second player to start playing GWEN straight away with an instant +10 damage against destroyers, while new players have to work for it.

The same goes for NF and extra damage against abaddons minions.

This advantage already exists for players that use only one character. When thye play the content though for a second time, they are recieving all the bonuses they got from playing through the first time. The OP is asking for equality by giving the same advantage to players that use more than one toon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

[b]There is also the major point that it will automatically give new players 4-6 maxed titles. That means a player could create a completely new char and have it instantly be KOABD!

Lets say that the average character will be played for 400 hours (a guestimate based on my own account), whereas it takes 4-8 hours to reach level 20. Having a character that will have koabd for the 1-2% of their lifetime before they reach the max level, is not a good reason for having a system that breed inequality.

theblackmage · Oct 25, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Yet you only have it because a DIFFERENT character earned those 6 titles. Not your necro!!

True, but think of it in another context: altgough extremely tedious to do, what if someone has maxed lucky, unlucky, kurzick and luxon? give the level 2 character lots of sweets earned by your high level character (or, also add in alcohol if only 1 faction maxed). You now have a level 2 character w/ KOABD (Yes, level 2, because factions/nf characters will be forced to lvl 2 by the time they hit a storage agent, and I don't think a lvl 1 in proph can witness the searing, but I could be wrong.) What is stopping you from doing that?

EDIT: proofreading FTW.

TaCktiX · Oct 25, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I partially agree with this suggestion. Yes, make total money-sinks like Drunkard, Sweet Tooth, and Wisdom account-based. Same steps, and it's inconvenient to log onto the "uber character" just to ID some gold. The reputation titles: keep them locked to character-based. It is easy to get a decent reputation for all factions just by doing the storyline (Rank 7 Sunspear, Rank 3 Lightbringer, Rank 3 of all GW:EN reps), and getting one-up on that is just as fast. Maxing them should be a prestige thing for your favorite characters, or a further demonstration of your dedication to the game by doing it more than once. Bottom line, if it's not rep, make it account-based. /Signed

korcan · Oct 25, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

i dont grind much at all, so i dont really care what anet does, status quo seems likely, but would people be happy if anet did make the ops grind based titles account wide while simultaneously increasing max requirements?

lets say they increase the max requirements to mirror those of the luxon and kurzick titles. would people be ok with that?

freekedoutfish · Oct 25, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Lets say that the average character will be played for 400 hours (a guestimate based on my own account), whereas it takes 4-8 hours to reach level 20. Having a character that will have koabd for the 1-2% of their lifetime before they reach the max level, is not a good reason for having a system that breed inequality.

Yet how does that lvl20 char deserve to have KOABD anymore then when they were lvl1?

The point I was making is that its misleading to have a character who hasnt earn KOABD or any of the higher ranks for it.

People will see that character and assume they must have some skill to have achieved 5+ max titles. Yet they havent, they have just unlocked it because a completely different character earned them.

It completely devalues KOABD more then it already has been! Its bad enough that most people have KOABD or higher now. If we allowed this EVERY character would have it.

Then what would it reprosent?

You wouldnt know if a player earned it themselves or simply has 5 titles maxed from a different char.

wu is me · Oct 25, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I don't see how KOABD would be devalued if it this were implemented. Given that the cap ceiling would need to be raised, it would make KOABD more difficult to achieve, although more enjoyable because you could do it across all your characters.

Also, just because you may not have played a particular profession, doesn't mean that you don't know each and every instance where you grinded your titles like the back of your hand.
Making a new character would mean getting used to the skills, but you don't instantly forget what sort of monsters are in missions, and what skills are useful for tackling them on your new profession.

And really should there really be a distinction between a character earning it, and a the person earning it?

Besides, KOABD makes as much sense as a Legendary Hero on a lvl1. It says "im low lvl but i aint n00b, doooon't muck with meh...grrrrr"

freekedoutfish · Oct 25, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

[QUOTE=wu is me]I don't see how KOABD would be devalued if it this were implemented. Given that the cap ceiling would need to be raised, it would make KOABD more difficult to achieve, although more enjoyable because you could do it across all your characters.
...QUOTE]

Hang on! So just to make the changes you want, you want to completely change the KOABD title ranks?

So that would mean needing more max title to reach KOABD? What about those of us who already have VIP or higher?

Do you not care that people would loose their new pheonix pets? Do you not care that knocking someon from VIP back down a few ranks in that title might piss alot of people off as the requirments are increased?

It doesnt matter whether you might be good at the new profession, because you might NOT!

KOABD and such title are meant to reflect a persons ability, and you cant just give it to a lvl1 for no reason, or allow a player to have it when they havent earnt the titles for it.

The pvp titles are obviously account based, because people go through pvp characters like most people do socks. You can create a fully maxed out character in pvp in the blink of an eye. I dont agree either that a lvl1 should be runnin around with a high pvp title either, but thats how its always been.

But in pve you have to WORK on your characters and EARN these things!

You cant expect to change the entire KOABD ranks just to suit your want to make all titles account based!

bilateralrope · Oct 25, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I refuse to continue because your just not listening and your being stubborn and lazey!

It is a blatent unfair advantage for your second player to start playing GWEN straight away with an instant +10 damage against destroyers, while new players have to work for it.

But unlike the new players, you already worked for it. So be more specific about how it isn't fair.

Also by playing though one character and getting unlocks, your other characters get massive advantages because they have more skills to chose from on their heroes. So if the minor situational advantage from the GW:EN skills isn't fair, how is the hero skill unlocks fair when its a bigger advantage that is used all the time ?

Quote:

As for the comments about wisdom and treasure hunting adding an advantage to more % change of your keys surviving. That doesnt make the actual gameplay easier, it just means you can open more chests.

Yes, all the effect does is make you richer.

Quote:

What your asking for is the equilivant of saying "right Ive completed all the missions in prophercies on HM on one character, so I want them all unlocked and completed on ALL my characters on HM because I dont want to grind for them again."

Yet you could argue "but I dont like re-playing all these missions on every character and I think its grind, so if one has completed them I want them completed on them all".

Except that when you made the new character, you knew that you would have to repeat the missions from when we started Guild Wars. We didn't know anything about having to repeat the grinding until ANET added in the grind based skills.

Quote:

I can then argue "but how does it make sense for level 14 character to enter prophercies and have all the missions completed on NM and/or HM, when they havent even done one quest yet?".

And your arguement could be "But how does it effect you?"!

And in your example, it would be people who haven't had much experience playing their character trying to join PUGs in the harder missions and causing the team to fail.

Quote:

We just dont need to have GWEN or NF titles account based. It will give an unfair advantage to new characters if they enter those campaigns or expansions with an automatic +damage or +protection or stronger pve only skills straight out. Thats a fact and accept it.

If they were linked to a non-grind title I would. However grind based stats are unfair because they reward the time you spent repeating some simple task, not your individual skill.

Quote:

Its pve not pvp! You cant have things be unlocked accross an entire account just because one character has completed it in pve. The point is to have all things unlocked individually in pve. But the other major point is these GWEN and NF titles are not that important that we need them to be account based.

Why aren't stat boosts, however minor, important ?
After all they directly effect how well your character performs, and player skill can't usually overcome these differences.

Quote:

There is also the major point that it will automatically give new players 4-6 maxed titles. That means a player could create a completely new char and have it instantly be KOABD!

Now explain to me how and why exactly a new level1 character deserves to be KOABD?

Well since the titles show that a player has repeated some task multiple times, the player deserves to show it. Besides they won't be staying at level 1 for long.

Quote:

You might create a Necromancer and have absolutely no skill or knowledge about how to use it. You might be a completely rubbish Necro by the time your level20, yet you have KOABD! Isnt that miss-leading? Players will see that and instantly assume you must have some skills if you have it!

That assumption will be quickly killed off after a few weeks. Personally the only time I've even cared about someones title is when we were deciding who would bring a hero. Both of us had identical builds and equiptment for that hero, its just that one of us had a higher Dwarven rank, meaning a more effective hero. The only time I've seen a PUG care is in DOA where LB gives a damage reduction. In both cases these cares were because of the stats given by the title, not because of the skill they show.

So be honest here, when you PUG do you actually care about the other PUGs ranks in their titles ?
Lets see how the GW players respond to these questions.

The only time I've ever seen a PUG caring is with DOA, where Lightbringer directly effected a players stats.

Besides, what skill do the grind based titles actually show ?
- Drunkard and Sweet Tooth show that you have spent a lot of gold.
- SS/LB show that you can do operate a wurm. This task is identical across all characters.
- Wisdom either shows that you have either been playing for a while, or you have bought a lot of unided golds.
- Treasure Hunter shows that you have opened a lot of chests. So either a long time playing, or you do a lot of chest running.
- GW:EN rep titles show some skill in that you might of completed the dungeons for them. However Master of the North shows the more skill (because you can't grind it up) and is obtained per character the first time through.

wu is me · Oct 25, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

etcetcetc...

For the Greater Good! xD
Well let me put it this way, if they lose their IVP cos of the increased cap ( i think it's inevitable ) well, lets just say that they're on their way to a more prestigious title.
Given that several titles are account based, I'm sure that the first thing these people will be doing is embarking on a new adventure with a new profession!

Not only that, but people would prolly start off with the titles maxed even with the increased cap, check out the scribe. So even if u went over the max, with the new cap all those points would still be accountable!

on the note of displaying a persons ablility...
I would play with an ele if i knew s/he was one damn fine mesmer anyday =P, cos being good at one class does rub off onto your skills in other classes. Also playing a variety of classes makes you overall better off than if you stuck with one class. I remember how I learned all the mesmer hexes to watch out for before started monking in RA, and I was a better monk for it (thought I admit it was quite a different experience =P).

Nemo the Capitalist · Oct 25, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

sign sign sign sign ....apparent enough

Red Sonya · Oct 26, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Grind Grind Grind it's good for the spine. No changing things they are working GREAT just like they are ANET. /unsigned again as always. I've started on my 2nd character grinding the treasure hunter and wisdom title tracks and I'm just fine with that. Something extra to do per character. Need more in fact not less.

freekedoutfish · Oct 26, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Yes, all the effect does is make you richer.

Oh come on, now you are just talking nonsense. Just because you might have a higher chance of a lockpick surviving, isnt going to make you suddenly rich beyond your wildest dreams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Except that when you made the new character, you knew that you would have to repeat the missions from when we started Guild Wars. We didn't know anything about having to repeat the grinding until ANET added in the grind based skills.

So by your logic....

If a person created a character after the new titles+pve only skills, knowing fine well they would have to grind for those aspects each time, then they have no right to complain because the knew about it (i.e like the missions).

Where as a person who created all their multiple characters before the titles+pve only skills thing was added can complain because they didnt know that would happen!

That sounds like what your saying?

Did you create all your chars before or after the titles+pve only skills thing was added? Because if it was after, then you know what im going to say!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

And in your example, it would be people who haven't had much experience playing their character trying to join PUGs in the harder missions and causing the team to fail.

All im saying is that if you see a lvl20 char in a high end area with KOABD, but they havent earned those 6 max titles themselves, you get a miss-conception of skill using that character!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

If they were linked to a non-grind title I would. However grind based stats are unfair because they reward the time you spent repeating some simple task, not your individual skill.

These grind titles you talk about such as repution levels, dont reward anything except make your pve only skills stronger. And those pve titles are NOT important to anything. You dont NEED them to be maxed out.

Yes you can choose to do that and its your choice! But you cant complain that Anet is "forcing you" or "pressuring you" to do it.

And rank 5 for armor and weapons is easily attaind on all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Why aren't stat boosts, however minor, important ?
After all they directly effect how well your character performs, and player skill can't usually overcome these differences.

I didnt say they werent important! What I said was that you can very easily get a max weapon at the start of any campaign through either trade, or a friend giving you one. This means they are available to all very easily. But you dont need max weapons until high end areas. By which time they drop for you or you have merchants or collectors who sell them cheap.

You cant compare the trading of max weapons at the start of campaigns to allowing all your characters to use titles you achieved on one char.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Well since the titles show that a player has repeated some task multiple times, the player deserves to show it. Besides they won't be staying at level 1 for long.

So what? Even if their lvl20 (as I said), and they run around with KOABD and they didnt earn those 6 titles themselves, its missleading to other players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

That assumption will be quickly killed off after a few weeks. Personally the only time I've even cared about someones title is when we were deciding who would bring a hero. Both of us had identical builds and equiptment for that hero, its just that one of us had a higher Dwarven rank, meaning a more effective hero. The only time I've seen a PUG care is in DOA where LB gives a damage reduction. In both cases these cares were because of the stats given by the title, not because of the skill they show.

So Im currently am elemental and I have been for 2 years, I have very little to NO experience of being a warrior, but I have VIP as elemental. Lets say I made a warrior, got him to lvl20 and somehow shared my VIP with him.

I've tried to play as warriors before and Im not good at it. My hero warriors are rubbish. Yet I might choose to show the "shared" VIP title and people assume im a decent warrior in a high end area.

Now I wouldnt do that personally, but someone would thinking it looked good and thinking it might help them get into groups. Even if their rubbish.

Concider that reaching lvl20 in factions requires no more then about 3 missions, that isnt enough time to learn ability and say your "good" at a profession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

So be honest here, when you PUG do you actually care about the other PUGs ranks in their titles ?
Lets see how the GW players respond to these questions.

The only time I've ever seen a PUG caring is with DOA, where Lightbringer directly effected a players stats.

I personally dont care about a persons titles or levels, because im not that shallow. But some people do. But I do believe that KOABD, PKM and VIP etc etc show some skill and tactic and those players should have some respect given to them.

To share those titles devalues that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Besides, what skill do the grind based titles actually show ?
- Drunkard and Sweet Tooth show that you have spent a lot of gold.
- SS/LB show that you can do operate a wurm. This task is identical across all characters.
- Wisdom either shows that you have either been playing for a while, or you have bought a lot of unided golds.
- Treasure Hunter shows that you have opened a lot of chests. So either a long time playing, or you do a lot of chest running.
- GW:EN rep titles show some skill in that you might of completed the dungeons for them. However Master of the North shows the more skill (because you can't grind it up) and is obtained per character the first time through.

How ever the LB/SS and GWEN titles give advantages such as +damage, +protection etc etc etc!

Drunk'en, widsom and treasure dont give any advantages that effect your actual gameplay!

BlackSephir · Oct 26, 2007, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Drunk'en, widsom and treasure dont give any advantages that effect your actual gameplay!

FFS, do you even own Guild Wars?

Quote:

* For each rank of the Treasure Hunter as well as the Wisdom title track earned, the chance of an item not being destroyed when salvaging a magical upgrade component is increased by 3 percent from a base of 50 percent. The bonuses from both titles do stack.
* For each rank of the Treasure Hunter track earned, the chance of a lockpick not being destroyed when opening a chest is increased by 3 percent from a base of 10 percent in Hard Mode or a variable base in normal mode (the Lucky title ranks increase your chance by an additional 2 percent per rank).